Radios, Relationships, and Resilience with Greg Hauser

 How North Carolina’s SWIC turned lessons from Hurricanes Florence & Helene into a national playbook for connectivity, trust, and response. 

When disaster strikes and communications fail, leadership and relationships make all the difference. In this episode of The EOC Podcast: Emergency Operations Conversations, host Jeff Perkins sits down with Greg Hauser, North Carolina’s Statewide Interoperability Coordinator (SWIC) and Vice Chair of the National Council of SWICs, to talk about what it truly takes to keep people connected when everything else goes dark.

Greg shares lessons learned from leading communications during hurricanes, floods, and national events, and how North Carolina’s Emergency Support Function 2 (ESF-2) continues to innovate under pressure. Together, Jeff and Greg explore the human side of interoperability — where trust, humility, and teamwork matter as much as the technology itself.

Listeners will hear first-hand stories from Hurricane Helene, reflections on how communities step up when systems go down, and a candid look at the future of emergency communications.

Whether you’re in emergency management, public safety, or just passionate about resilience, this conversation delivers insight, leadership, and heart — proving that true interoperability starts with relationships.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:15

Hello and welcome back to the EOC podcast. It's a pleasure to have you with me today. Uh my name is Jeff Perkins, and I am gonna be your host for this episode, and I am extremely honored to be joined today by the statewide interoperability coordinator or SWIC for the state of North Carolina. Greg Hauser, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_01: 0:37

Hi, thanks, Jeff. I'm honored to be here, my friend. It's uh it's a pleasure to uh to to offer up to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 0:44

I'm happy. Absolutely. And I will tell you the pleasure is all mine, sir. Uh so I'll just give the audience a quick overview of how cool Greg Hauser is and how cool interoperability is. Uh Greg Hauser serves as a statewide interoperability coordinator for the North Carolina Division of Emergency Management, where he leads the state's emergency support function to, or ESF 2. Since joining North Carolina Emergency Management in 2018, Greg has been responsible for coordinating North Carolina's public safety communication strategy, overseeing interoperability planning, and guiding technology integration across local, state, and federal partners. Before joining NCEM, Greg spent 17 years with the Charlotte Fire Department, where he served as a telecommunicator and search and rescue communications specialist. His extensive field experience shaped his practical understanding of how technology, policy, and human relationships intersect in real-world emergencies. Nationally, Greg is recognized as a leader in the interoperability community. He currently serves as the vice chair of the National Council of Statewide Interoperability Coordinators, or NC SWIC, helping shape national priorities for emergency communications and resilience. Over the course of his career, he has supported communications operations for major incidents and events, including the 2012 Democratic National Convention, Hurricanes, Plural, Irene, Florence, Matthew, Dorian, and uh Helene last year, and served as an advisor for the 2016 and 2020 Republican National Conventions. Originally from Beckett, Massachusetts, Greg earned his bachelor's degree in fire investigation and fire administration from the University of New Haven in Connecticut, and later completed the Community Preparedness and Disaster Management Master's program at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. Known for his calm leadership, deep technical knowledge, and people first approach, Greg continues to build bridges between disciplines, ensuring first responders stay connected when it matters most. Greg, that is a very, very impressive resume, sir. Uh and 17 years at the city of Charlotte. You must have started when you were eight.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

It seems like forever ago. Um actually, I uh started uh on uh September 5th, uh 2001, so just before 9-11 uh happened. Um, you know, a small town kid trying to trying to get into the big city, you know, big city fire service, uh, landed in Charlotte with uh some friends. Luckily, uh started off as a telecommunicator and I just had a blast. It was a great organization, is a great organization uh to work for, got a ton of experience. Um and the cool thing about working uh for the Charlotte Fire Department was if you had an idea, uh they gave you the uh the room and the flexibility to kind of put it on paper, you know, give that elevator pitch to an executive level leader, and then run with run with it. So great opportunity for growth there at Charlotte Fire. Um, you know, and then the time came for the opportunity for uh this position here at the state of North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00: 3:57

So yeah. Now, Charlotte, uh, those guys, you know, you see those blue Charlotte Fire shirts, you know, sometimes all over the country and even sometimes all over the world doing all kinds of different rescue work. So were you involved in any of those like deployments or uh any of those outside the city type uh um response activities?

SPEAKER_01: 4:16

Yeah, sure. I I was. I my first one out was uh was a hazardous materials incident in Great Falls, South Carolina. So a little bit down I-77 there. They had a huge uh hazardous materials incident there. It was kind of unfortunate. Uh, but that was our first exposure. Uh, and thankful to operations division there and with the fire department, they said, let's bring this kid along uh and see what he's made of. So went down there. I remember checking out a reserve battalion car and just kind of trying to keep up with uh with the engine ladder, you know, just trailing down the highway. So that kind of blossomed the the tactical communications program there. Uh and same thing, got a phone call. Uh Tropical Storm Nicole was our first time out, or my first time out with the Swiftwater Rescue Team, and that was an amazing experience uh just trying to figure out, you know, tech not only technological technological problems, but just you know, getting uncomfortable in a space where you can't control anything. It was a great learning experience for me. I got to witness a lot of amazing, amazing things. You know, the teams did a rescue off of a bridge where a tractor trailer kind of flipped off there into the water. Really neat. Um, you know, it wasn't hugely technical, uh, but it really laid the groundwork for me to start thinking a little bit more tactically in my career uh and you know, open my eyes to you know a statewide response or at least getting out there in having a communications or a technology presence in the field with the folks that are you know getting in those crazy situations, breaking rocks and jumping in the water or flying around on helicopters. Um so that that was that was a great experience. Uh and then that led to uh uh communications unit leader training. Uh I was afforded a great opportunity by um Deputy Chief Jeff Doolin. Uh one day, just called up into the alarm room and said, Hey uh kid, what are you doing next month this time? So in 2007, I was uh I was afforded the opportunity to get to Atlanta and attend one of those first uh Calmel classes, communications unit leader classes. Way out of my league. I had no business being there, um, but I learned a valuable lesson. I'd uh keep your mouth shut, your ears open, you probably learned something, uh, which I did. I met a lot of my mentors uh there, so Dan Wills and Randy Kerr and Michael Paulette. Those are the folks that really um and I think you know, your listeners, and you know, you may have experienced this, but you know, you see those people in your career, you just kind of look at them, you're like, I think I want to be this person. You know, they they I think they've got it together. They you know they present themselves very well, and I, you know, I I really had a great experience there.

SPEAKER_00: 7:05

Yeah, and you know, some of those names you mentioned, if there was a Mount Rushmore of uh communication folks, uh, you know, some of those faces would definitely be on it, and I think you'd agree with that. Um so well you've been you know in in public safety communications now for over two decades. Um so from your early days, you know, at at Fire Alarm uh with the Charlotte Fire Department to uh your current role as North North Carolina uh SWIC or statewide interoperability coordinator. So what what initially really drew you to this field in the first place? Um because you did that, you know, I saw that you had some fire education. Um, but what what what actually brought you to emergency communications and what's kept you passionate about it uh for all these years?

SPEAKER_01: 7:50

Yeah, sure. So I you know, I I love the fire service. I was born and raised around it. Uh, you know, my my family, my father and aunt and uncle, grandfather, you know, grandmother, my mother was um helped out at the firehouse all the time. Small town, we heck, we probably did shoot maybe 80 calls a year. Uh, but I really loved it. I loved the fact that I could um I could go down to the firehouse. It felt like a safe space to me. Uh so went to college, uh, just you know, I aspired to get in the fire service, want to be a firefighter. Um didn't quite work out, right? Uh, I think uh a testament for our learning experience for everyone who's listening, right? You start out with an idea in your career of of what you expect, and then what happens based on some decisions and some you know some opportunities, you land in a place that may be different. Uh so keeping that open mind, you know, I'll uh completely honest with you. You know, I went down to take that agility test and was and didn't work out. So um, so I I landed in fire alarm and and it was a blessing. I really found a home there and was able to still get my you know my operational fix, the firehouse life. You know, fire alarm is at uh fire station one, so you know the back and forth banter of of uh of uh the fire service was was still there, which I love and I miss. Um that that kind of forged um my my vision or or my desire to to do something more, um, which I s I really hope your listeners can can feel that or find that. Uh so I always wanted to you know have this position. I uh once the the Swick position started to to come to fruition nationally, like that would be really cool to have. You know, I get to get to try and figure out this huge puzzle and and and what better way to do it than statewide and and really dig in and and find those issues. Uh so that's that's kind of how I landed where I did. Uh and and I I'm super lucky, you know, things happen for a reason. My mother used to say that. I just got to keep your eyes open.

SPEAKER_00: 10:01

Yeah, no, and and you know, everyone walks a different path, and it's not always straight, right? Sometimes you gotta go around a bunch of corners, and sometimes you gotta climb walls or uh you know take a leap across a uh a canyon. You never really know, right? So uh, you know, me, I I I don't know if you knew this, but my like vision of what my life was gonna be is I was gonna be a rapper. Uh that's what I was gonna do. So obviously, yeah, that's life is taking me in a different direction, and that's what's uh wonderful about life and this journey that we all walk on together, right? So um, no, really cool and and and really interesting that you know you were able to have that experience, you know, uh growing up uh around the firehouse and and you got to still still be there, you know. So even though it wasn't exactly what you had drawn up, uh I think uh you know somebody had a bigger plan in mind, uh, and I think you're exactly on the path that you should be.

SPEAKER_01: 10:57

So yeah, Jeff, I'll I was a lousy firefighter anyway, man. To be honest with you, I wasn't really good at it. So my you know, my roommates in college will probably tell you, you're like, good move, dude. I think you got the I think you followed the right path, buddy.

SPEAKER_00: 11:09

But you know, you you've uh you've put on the boots uh and you know what it's like. So when now you get to lead with that uh experiential knowledge um of of what it's like, you know, you know, you know how critical the communications that you keep going are uh because you've been there, you've held the radio, um you know, you've you've you've done that. So I think that's really important. Um so now moving on to uh an a different question here is it you know, since being Twick, you've been involved in some really big uh you know events uh that have actually had historical significance in the United States. When you look back um on those different events, those really big ones, which event do you feel shaped your approach to interoperability the most?

SPEAKER_01: 11:56

That's a really good question. I think you know when I started, I only had about five months on the job uh when uh Hurricane Florence hit, and that was my first uh my first opportunity to be in a position of uh of leadership, not necessarily authority, but more leadership. Uh, and it was very humbling. Uh so the I think to answer your question, I think each one of them provides something different. Um, each of them important. Um you know, I could I could offer uh stories or uh uh examples of uh of learning opportunities that I that I've had. Um but you know Florence was the first time that I've that I was put in a position to actually be responsible for something this large. Uh and it was a little bit stressful, but I had I had a plan, right? I've always I've always wanted to be in that position. So I knew what to do. I kind of started laying out uh what I thought would would happen. And then, you know, I just I'd gathered a team of my friends around me. Uh so you know, I'd if anything, if you put some people around you that you trust, that you know think like you, and you know, and also you need someone who doesn't necessarily think like you, but what kind of aligns with uh with your plan, I think is important too. So we had a great team there. Um it was stressful. We worked a lot, there was a lot of damage, a lot of flooding, and some life lost uh there during Hurricane Florence. And it was the first time uh to a mild extent where you know my friends and part of my team were affected, right? So we had um, you know, she she was the um uh now a one center manager down in Carteret County at the time, but uh also came from Charlotte Fire. Um, you know, she had significant damage to her home. So that was you know, that's kind of tough when you have you know your friends and you know your your teammates start to become affected. And then and obviously last year, you know, Hurricane Helene defined defined my career and a lot of our careers here in North Carolina. It's just uh it was a it was a tough one, you know. You you you have things happen in your career, your professional life, or in your personal life, right? That kind of that kind of shape um you know what kind of shape what you've learned and and then put you to the test. Uh and you know, last year certainly did that for us here in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

Yeah, so I I'm gonna ask you to expand on that a little bit further. And and when we talk about Hurricane Helene, obviously that's huge. A lot of people remember it because it was just last year, but it was also um it was different in many different ways than than your normal typical hurricane. Uh there was a, you know, some people thought, well, we're not gonna be impacted by that. And there was a lot of factors that that went into making this as um as bad as it really uh ended up being. So can you walk the listeners through the communications challenges uh that you and your team faced and how your ESF 2 response adapted uh in in real time as things were unfolding?

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

Yeah, sure. I I think uh Helena was unprecedented, right? Uh during um, you know, maybe a few days into it, you know, you get you start to get kind of in a rut um, you know, in a leadership position. Uh and I spoke to one of my other mentors, you know, back in Charlotte, retired uh division chief. So I called him up. I was like, I'm struggling here, I need a pep talk. Uh and he's like, this is unimaginable, um Greg. So you gotta you gotta walk it back a little bit and you gotta start, you know, taking one piece at a time, and then you know, coming up with some type of action based on what your plan is. So to give you an idea, um, at what point we had 19 counties in western North Carolina that were uh greater than, you know, don't quote me on this number, but um, you know, they were greater than 70% degraded in comms, and we had four counties that were catastrophic loss, so almost zero communications publicly uh zero comms. There's no cell, no uh, you know, no wire line uh communications. I think the estimate was uh over 1,700 miles of fiber uh line. That's the stuff that's either buried under the ground or you know, on a telephone pole was destroyed, completely washed away and destroyed. So uh so that was kind of the the the direct impacts. But leading up to Helene, you know, we we've had some experience, you know, in in our world, Jeff, you know, you you look upon after action reports from previous incidents and events. So we had some experience of um there was Hurricane Fred that that ran up into that area of the state in Haywood County and and really hurt those guys um uh in a certain community there in Haywood County, which is right on the Tennessee border. So we thought we were game planning planning just like for that. So we we thought we knew there was going to be damage, uh we knew it was gonna be impactful, but we didn't think it was gonna be completely widespread, you know, 19 to 22 counties just of significant damage and degradation to communications networks. So um so it caught us off guard, right? But it in the end, we're it we speak I speak to a lot of our team uh in and across uh sections within our organization, and I don't think I don't think any of us knew this it would be this impactful, right? Hurricanes don't completely damage and destroy mountainous communities in North Carolina. So we had to I think it was the 25th of September. Um, you know, I had to write a hazard assessment, part of our our lead up into a hurricane or any type of activation uh for the emergency operations center. It's my job as the emergency support function to lead is to write a hazard assessment or a risk analysis to um the operation section chief and in turn the director of emergency management. So, you know, I did write on there, I distinctly remember it, I wrote um, you know, any landslides or moving earth uh will destroy landline or wireline communications that includes AM, FM, TV, all of those things we anticipated degradation. So we had an idea. Um but I did report we had no gaps or unmet needs. So looking back on that, it's it's kind of laughable that you know almost 30 hours later we would have all gaps in unmeasurable uh unmet needs.

SPEAKER_00: 18:36

Yeah, if only you had a magic eight ball or uh some way to predict the future, right?

SPEAKER_01: 18:41

Um sure, sure. Um but then again, you know, like I said before, Jeff, like if you if you know something is coming, right? The main thing that I do and I want to do is I want to surround myself with my friends. That makes me comfortable. You know, I I know these folks are are invested in the mission, I know they understand what to do. Uh so we just started that process. We you know we had some uh some overhead teams in the west and and in the central part of the state because we didn't know. So we had our A-team on the field, uh, and then that um that night, the 27th, I believe, and again, I apologize if I'm missing dates and times, but um I remember seeing a a social media post in Raleigh on uh the evening of the 27th, and it was from there's like a celebrity uh meteorologist in the Charlotte area. His name's Brad Penovich, like WX Brad, everybody knows him. He's really trusted in the community, and he's really trusted uh in the western part of the state. So I remember seeing something, somebody came in, they're like, hey, you gotta read this, something's going on. Um, and it said that um something life-changing has happened in uh in western North Carolina. I think he said um there's a horrible tragedy unfolding uh in North Carolina, eastern Tennessee, etc. Um and that immediately snapped us too to be like, well, we need to start reaching out uh to people, and just one by one, we just couldn't get in touch with anyone. So that immediately changed our focus to almost like um, you know, the you talk about adapting, right? So there's a process. Every every hurricane or every incident has a process. You walk the process because that is how you know that it's historically it's done that way. Uh and it's important that you follow the process because if you stray other functions within emergency management that are following the process, you'll miss, right? You'll you'll you'll start to fragment, you'll start to silo, and then that's when we lose that interoperability piece. But um that happened very fast. That happened. Um, but it was it happened for a reason. Uh and we started to settle in and say, it's okay that this is happening.

SPEAKER_00: 20:59

So well, you know, when you think about that, uh, you know, if it that just shows how important communications is because even the people that that usually would reach out and say, hey, here's our here's our status, uh, they weren't able to do that. And uh, you know, it was uh at least WX Brad was able to um without even probably knowing it, uh, be able to spin up the the fact that where, hey, wait, we haven't heard from these people. They might need help. So have you talked to WX Brad since then to let him know how impactful he actually was with that post?

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

I have not, um, but I he is very well known uh to our uh ESF2 or our tactical comms uh teams. He's very um he's just like us, Jeff, he's a nerd, right? He's he's a geeky guy. Yeah, yeah. Um we love him. And and one of our um one of our team members out there in Burke County is is very close uh with him. They work together. They're um we're we're lucky enough to have a meteorologist on our team, so so they chat and they talk. Um so but that's a good idea. I might I might reach out just to just to let them know that I appreciate that recommendation.

SPEAKER_00: 22:08

Hey, it doesn't always have to be pretty, right? It just has to work. Um, you know, and and uh people I think you know they they band together a lot of the time when when you talk about uh you know the what ifs, right? So out here um in the Pacific Northwest, our what if is the Cascadia subduction zone. And we know everything's gonna be gone. Um it's going to be uh a very, very bad um natural disaster. And um, you know, some people have you know catastrophized and said, you know, oh, people are gonna turn on each other and it's gonna be, you know, like the the when you watch the show Doomsday Preppers, you know, it's gonna be like complete civil unrest and everyone's gonna come unglued and and you know you're gonna see the worst of humanity. But I I actually tend to believe the opposite. The more that I've been involved in some of these really um you know major incidents, and I think that sometimes you see the best of people, honestly, when when it's down and out. Everybody becomes, you know, there's no more socioeconomic uh scale. Everybody's on the same scale at that point. So everybody's on the same same slate, uh, nobody's above anybody else, and then you you start to see some pretty good things uh from from humanity, even if you've seen some pretty bad ones before.

SPEAKER_01: 23:23

Couldn't agree with you more, sir. That's right on the money, and that happened. We we were able to witness that. You know, you have you have communities that band together and they start, you know, working on priorities themselves, and they start talking about caring for each other and you know finding those vulnerable um populations of citizens to just to start the process of helping, right? You gotta start somewhere. Um and I think everyone did that. Um I think I think it was after the the awe of what was happening, um, I think everyone just started to say, let's just get out there. Like we have no plan, uh, but we do have some you know some guiding principles to just get us started and get out there into the field and just to let folks know that we're out there. Uh so that was very, very important.

SPEAKER_00: 24:11

Yeah, like what's your mission statement and and how do you you know put it in there? What are the incident objectives and how do we from the communication side accomplish those? Um how do we help? Um, but so during that, you know, um, you know, I'm curious. So there's been a lot of uh technology uh advancements in the realm of communications. Um how did North Carolina integrate some of these new uh evolving technologies, you know, like like Starlink or uh you know any other satellite uh or broadband tools? Uh you know, what was the technology that you guys deployed to help, you know, in the response uh to try to bring some of these counties that were impacted back online?

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

Yeah, I mean Starlink was huge, right? It's a new technology for us in North Carolina. I think we've always felt the need to have something like that. Um, you know, it it there was just a struggle uh prior to Helene. You know, it's a lot of times in public safety, you really you don't put your foot on the gas to engage a newer technology because there isn't a need, which is which is really frustrating. Um you know, we we were punched in the face with need, uh, which made it very, very difficult for us uh to to just so we we had none, right? We had no uh Starlink or low Earth orbit stuff in North Carolina at the time. There was some floating around, right? But then we had to reach out to our partners uh to dig in and do it. There was some some stuff locally uh on some of our first strike teams out in the field that where they were able to get in to some of these devastated areas. I think one of our first teams was got into Yancey County, North Carolina, which is um extreme uh like right on the Tennessee border, very remote, very rural. Uh they were able to get up there and get them connected. They had a um uh we call them a triple C, but um, for those that are familiar, it's the the compact rapid deployable. Uh we were able to get that in there uh along with a Starlink kit to just get them some uh some situational awareness. You gotta understand when your when your technology and your connectivity is completely gone and taken away, these communities were completely isolated, in some cases for days. It took us a long time to physically get to a lot of these places to get them connectivity. And a lot of those first interactions just from debriefs from a lot of the comms teams, and it was it was very surreal. So they're saying, is it like this at anywhere else, or is it just us? You know, and I think the power of it is, you know, a technology that we do have in North Carolina, it's it's called the Emergency Services IP network or ESINet, and it's a network uh uh that allows 911 calls to transit across the network to other parts of North Carolina, so worked, you know, worked really well. Um but a lot of those a lot of those 911 centers that you know they just kind of went quiet uh when everything went down and fell down around them, they really had no idea what was happening, which is scary. It's a very scary place to be for them. I know in in one case, um, I think one of our uh our comtees, you know, they were gonna get them back online, and he said, I don't know if you guys are ready for what I'm about to do. So they had a conversation, they they got the shift together, and they had a quick huddle, and it was like, This is not gonna be good because when I turn this on, you guys are gonna be put you you guys are gonna be thrown into this like everybody else. So right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:52

You can't put the cat back in the bag, right? Once you're that bottle, it's it's all coming out, and there's gonna be some you're not gonna be able to erase what you're about to hear, uh, and what you're about to experience. So human factors huge on that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:08

Yeah, totally. You know, and we have you know, we use Bridge for Public Safety and Um, you know, just to have that have that information collaboration piece, so that worked out really well. Um but I think this for us, and I appreciate technology. I think for us on this one, it was more um you know, that human interaction to start, and the technology and getting them back up where they need to be was kind of second. Uh and that's not traditional and not not the way it is supposed to go, right? We're we're nerds, our job is to tinker with things, uh spread the gear out uh in the field, and get get the incident commander what they need, get the uh emergency manager what they need. You know, a lot of the stuff that our teams did out there was um I guess uh getting getting those officials, those that continuity of government just to make sure they had um proof of life on people. You know, let's start there first before we start thinking about a response or some type of you know action. So it's crazy, man. Like I'm not gonna lie, this that's um it was completely uh completely unorthodox, uh, but but they did great work, right? It was it was pretty amazing stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 29:28

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Um and hats off to them that you know the the the people that were involved uh in the response uh across all sectors, right? Because this was a full operation. Every ESF was was activated, right? And so every everybody in their lane um probably experienced something similar um to what ESF two went through, but you guys were were unique in that. And and I think that you know, making sure that you just acknowledge the fact that these are people. Not only are the people that are impacted people, but the people that are performing the restoration work, whether it's the private sector or even the Comtees that are out there in the field, they're all people. And they're all connected. Just like you had said, you know, I think it was Hurricane Florence, that, you know, you you were directly working with somebody who was a victim of the storm that you were responding to. So when you think about it, you know, you're all neighbors, and and it all comes back down to that. And and and just because I've known you, I've known that you've tended to emphasize relationships over technology um, you know, once or twice or all the time. Um, what's your approach to building trust and collaboration uh among local, state, and federal partners? Because they can all have different needs, priorities, and trusts.

SPEAKER_01: 30:53

Oh gosh, man, I love that, Jeff. That's a great question, man. And I think um trust is an interesting thing. Um there is a lot of uh you can't just walk up to someone and be like, hey, I trust you. Like, what are we gonna do? Whatever, whatever you say, I'm gonna trust it. Like there, there's more to it than that. You know, you gotta um you gotta be honest, I think. Um, you can't hide bad news. I think a lot of times um we have a tendency to try and protect each other. Um, I don't think that's trust. I think it it it I think the ability for you and me to be honest with each other if something is not going right. I think uh the more that my team uh asks for help, the more I trust them. That I know you I know all of our folks and I know all of us in this industry are gonna do our best, right? I we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't do our best. I think it's the point for which you start asking for help is the is where you've you've started to grow into that more advanced, skilled, uh, you know, technical person. Um I think always doing right by those in need is important, uh, you know, for that trust factor. If if if I know that your decision process is always gonna benefit the person that you're serving, regardless of whether it might break a couple rules here and there, right? We don't we we want to play by the rules, but I want to I want to know that you're doing the right thing. That's important. Um you know, I think I think also I think sometimes once you get really skilled and you get in a position where you think you've mastered something, right? There's this tendency to I don't want to say judge, but I I think I I feel if I'm gonna trust you, I have to know that you're willing to do a basic task. Um if you think you're too like if you think you're better than everyone else, I don't uh you won't succeed on our team. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 32:58

No one's too good to take out the trash, right?

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

Like Right. And I think sometimes that is the the one thing that that person needs. You know, they don't need a technical solution, they don't need um, you know, they don't need a Starlink, they don't need a uh an 800 megahertz radio, they need someone to sit and look at them and say, I'm right here, dude. Like if you want to take five minutes, just give me five minutes in your chair. That's it. If you give me five minutes, I'll give you an hour. Like, I can get you an hour. You know, I think those little things add up to big things, and I think that's where trust is built and it's fostered.

SPEAKER_00: 34:35

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you gotta have you know a good moral compass that's that's guiding you, right? And and I always say, if if I do something, you know, and I've been known to I don't know, uh agitate some leaders in uh different agencies, you know, and and and then you know it'll come back to the question of why, right? So when when someone asks me, why did you do this? Why did you take this action? And I know that as long as I'm doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons, I will be able to justify whatever comes from it. Um and and I know that as long as that guides me, uh, I can take those actions and those those liberties, so to speak, to okay, maybe this isn't how we're we always do it, but these this is the totality of circumstance, and I'm doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons, and so whatever consequences come from that, I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror and and say, at least I did something because I don't know how I would feel looking at myself in the mirror if you know when talking about the consequences from not doing something.

SPEAKER_01: 35:46

Right on. You're yeah, you're exactly right. Um, and I think that's um that sometimes gets us a little bit derailed on what we're trying to do, right? If we would we would rather over you know overcomplicate a situation when you just keep it simple, keep it easy, keep it simple, do the right thing.

SPEAKER_00: 36:02

It's you're yeah, kiss kiss method, right?

SPEAKER_01: 36:04

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 36:05

That's right. It's all it all boils back down to that. You know, basic, basic dispatcher training. Keep it simple. Uh keep it, keep it super simple. So I've been told interoperability j isn't just about radios. What is interoperability all about? Oh gosh, yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

I think interoperability is is the ability to walk up to someone that you don't know and introduce yourself. I think that is the beginning of interoperability, right? Human interoperability uh is is more important than two radios working uh you know from disparate systems working on a similar channel. Like what I get all that, that's important. That is interoperability as a noun, if you will. But I want I want to be a broker of relationships. I think if I see a problem as the statewide interoperability coordinator, if I see a problem with agencies not not quite lining up where they need to be, or maybe they have a disagreement, I I want to help I want to get in the middle of that. I want to have the tough conversation. Because I know that a lot of times we're not just we're just not speaking the same language here. Like the intent is almost always the same. The the end goal is almost always the same. So to me, interoperability at its core is a disagreement leading into a solution. Uh and add some technology in there, and uh and we got it.

SPEAKER_00: 37:42

So let's say, you know, you have limitless budget, right? You have you have you know all the money in the world to fund like a rural resource-limited agency that's trying to build a sustainable interoperability program. You know, they're they're struggling, they they can't maintain a comm you on their own, you know. They're but you have a limitless budget. What would you invest in for that that particular community trying to you know build out an interoperability program?

SPEAKER_01: 38:13

Yeah, no, for me, uh patches and t-shirts. Yeah first. Right, pride and ownership, you can do a lot with pride and ownership. I can't like again, I came from a town of you know 600 people. Um to to to be seen um is important for rural North Carolina, for rural America in general, right? The need is exactly the same. It doesn't it doesn't matter if you're in down uh downtown Durham, North Carolina, uh you know, uptown Charlotte, or if if you're in you know Burnsville, North Carolina. It is super important that if you have the right people in Burnsville, North Carolina, they own it and they're proud of it. You know, and I and this is a real example. Uh a count a very, very rural county brought their command bus to a uh one of our first command rallies or communic communications vehicle rallies long way back, and it was like one of those small school buses that they converted, and they were so embarrassed by it. And I'm like, get that thing up here, front and center. And we had you know the Charlotte Fire field comm team working on it. Greensboro fires, tactical comms, guys who are all stars, like all these people, we used that one, and we all formed around it, and the pride that they left with was unmeasurable, man. It was really easy to see. So, like you have that, you know, you know, if I had an unlimited budget, yeah, I would get them a new, uh, a new truck, but I think if you can get them a bag with Velcro so that they can walk into a room of training that and it says, I'm from small town, yeah, I'm from small town, North Carolina. People are gonna be like, Where is that, man? Holy and and there's your conversation, there's your interoperability. And then they start trading, you know, then they start trading, and then it's a competition, and then stickers start flying everywhere, and they end up in precarious positions.

SPEAKER_00: 40:16

It's amazing when you empower somebody and you make them proud and and motivated, what they can do. You know, they'll fill in the rest, they'll find something, they'll they'll turn a school bus into a comms vehicle, right? Totally. So the investment in I think making that community proud, I think that's definitely the the way to go because then they'll do the rest, right? They have the pride, they have the the um the direction, right, the motivation, and then collectively as a community, they'll they'll figure it out and they'll do some really awesome things. Uh you just gotta believe in them, you know, give them that, give them that push and give them the ability. Totally.

SPEAKER_01: 40:56

A lot of times they're gonna turn down whatever you want to give them, right? That's just the sense of community. You're like, ah, somebody needs it more. You're like, oh yeah, it's like, yeah, you're exactly right. I love it. I love it, but it's okay. Like, it is okay to accept uh you know this this gear or whatever it is that uh that fell off the back of a truck.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

Yeah, absolutely, 100%. Patches and t-shirts. I like it. I like it. So what do you see like the role of a SWIC, you know, nationwide here, not just not just North Carolina, sure. Um, but not only nationwide, there's 56, correct? Correct, yeah, 50 states and six territories, yeah. There you go. So what do you see as those SWIC's role uh in the next decade, especially as like, you know, AI, you know, cybersecurity challenges, you know, uh broadband, uh, you know, becoming more prevalent and everything. So so what do you see as the SWIC's role uh in going into the next decade? Do you see it it diminishing? Do you see it expanding? What's what's your opinion on that?

SPEAKER_01: 42:03

That's a good one. Yeah, darn. I think so. This is you're not gonna like this, Jeff. I think it depends, right, where you are. So like our friends in the Pacific, you know, in uh Commonwealth Northern Marianas Islands or Guam, like it's it is very different. Interoperability challenges out there are very, very different than they are in, say, Oklahoma or New Jersey uh or Oregon. I think I think it is important as we move forward uh as technology advances so fast, right? We've got to remain relevant. We have to remain in the conversation. Uh, and I think it's it's common amongst the industry, right, to say, well, all these all these networks and things are all becoming IT-based, right? That's cool, right? That's how technology kind of is going. But we have to remember, right, there's always a there's always a reset of that at some point. Like we got our reset September 26th, uh, you know, 2004. That was our technology reset. That's where we became relevant. Um, so I think there's every state, every US territory, district of Columbia is gonna have that reset moment. I think preparing for it, trying to play ahead, manage the consequences, and kind of forecast what that looks like as the threat develops is is very, very complex. Uh so I I see the SWIC position becoming more analytic. I see us being more um, I think as a group, you know, some of us already are, uh, but more of a uh a resource to executive and elected officials, so executive level people, not only in public safety, but in the community. So I think how you know how these these larger entities in our states and territories are are becoming more technologically advanced, more integrated into cyber type things, it it's uh it's becoming very complex. I definitely think uh the roles have to expand, the personnel have to expand, you know, one point of contact per state in U.S. territory ain't gonna get it. You know, that uh there has to be offices of interoperability, you know, and and even what we call it is is probably going to change. Um because because it has to, right? We have to evolve. Threats evolved, we gotta stay ahead of the game, we gotta we gotta keep trying to predict and stay one step ahead of that next big thing.

SPEAKER_00: 44:37

Yeah. Now, being you know, vice chair of the National Council uh of SWIX, you know, what what has been some challenges with that? Because because obviously there's there's been a force reduction on the federal side. Sure. And and uh from my understanding, uh there's some federal involvement in NC SWIC. Can you elaborate on what that involvement is and if there's been any disruption and and what the impacts felt throughout the states and territories uh for SWICs have been uh since then? And and what's the plan going forward?

SPEAKER_01: 45:10

Yeah, sure. So I think um, you know, our you know, public safety in general, you have a one-up and a one-down look, right? So you have your the people that are you serve, and then you have that coordination look upward. So in a in a state territory district call me that one-up look is to a federal agency, it's called CISA. So cyber security and infrastructure security agency. So like every other federal agency, they were impacted, you know, by the reductions in force and things like that. So uh also some contract staff, you know, they were um that was reduced as well. Um, CISA provides uh it's called technical assistance. So a state or a territory or District of Columbia that can reach out uh to our emergency communications coordinators with CISA. There's one for each reason. Sometimes there's two. You reach out and be like, hey, North Carolina's having trouble, we can't get over the hump with this problem, you know, and then and then they bring in some subject matter experts and then come up with uh a process, an exercise, a document, whatever that looks like, there's that assistance there. And that was that was free, right? So so we've seen that kind of reduce way down, uh, unfortunately. But you know, you I think us in as Swix we're we're used to roadblocks, right? We're used to stuff, you know. We well, this isn't gonna work here, we're gonna have to reduce here and stuff like that. So we're kind of used to that. Um obviously we didn't want this. Uh we don't have any control over it, but we didn't, you know, we didn't want it. It kind of sets us back a little bit. But I can tell you one thing that's come out of it, which is really, really cool. We used to meet twice a year, uh, all the Swicks. We would get together uh and have you know three, four days of just collaboration, you know, getting together with with my peers, uh uh, you know, the people that I respect, the people that uh that do the same work as me. There's a a lot of amazing and brilliant Swicks out there, and each of them each of the Swicks are unique, right? And equally as passionate, right? But asking the Swic of Montana how they deal with an issue, and then hearing from the Swick of Georgia about that same issue, it's two totally different things, but equally as passionate. Uh and equally as they they all they both work, right? So it's super neat to see that. So we went from meeting twice in person, you know, that's kind of been put on the uh back burner for now. Uh but we meet, um, we were meeting every other week uh virtually, and now we've we've kind of uh pushed to once a month, but we take a couple hours once a month and we just chat. You know, we have 30 or 40 of us on the line, and we just we just talk about what keeps us up at night. Uh and it's really cool. You know, we've picked up the the correspondence and information sharing to kind of fill the void uh where in where previously we've reach out to our federal partners and say, Hey, is anybody else doing this? Uh, you know, we've just kind of had to adjust adjust course just a little bit, and we just you know shoot out, we have a distro list and we'll say, hey, is anybody seeing this? And then there's a reply, Connecticut replies, and Maryland, and then Arizona. So it's really it's pretty awesome to see, man. It it is, and it's fun. There's some great folks we cut up. I miss them like it. Our in-person stuff is usually a who we you know, we all get together, and a lot of times, you know, the stuff we write down on a barn bar napkin ends up being a governance document somewhere, you know, it's pretty neat to see.

SPEAKER_00: 48:38

Oh, that is that is pretty awesome. And uh, you know, it's like you know, the the the feds, you know, they helped kind of uh establish it, right? And now the it's there and now it exists, and it's too big to just die. Um and it's too useful to die. So you guys are now keeping it alive as as Twix. Um and you know, it is whatever you guys put into it collectively. Um and and so to keep that keep that going and keep that uh uh you know collaboration uh alive and and working uh for the greater good, I think is is really impressive. Uh and it really shows that, you know, because of course this is just one aspect of of what you know the uh the federal reduction has has had impact on, but this shows resilience, right? And so I think this could be a model to other uh you know disciplines that are kind of experiencing a similar thing that hey, just because the the feds are stepping back a little bit uh doesn't necessarily mean that your work is over or that you need to just pack it up and that you're done, right? There there is uh a tomorrow and you can still keep going and and functioning.

SPEAKER_01: 49:48

Yeah, it's time for you to step up, right? It's time for the states to step up, use what what we've learned from you know our contract support and our friends and at the federal uh you know at the federal agency level, and it's time to step up. Let's do it. Let's hold the let's hold the fork down until until it gets uh squared away, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 50:04

Yeah, absolutely. So I just got a couple more questions for you, Greg, and then and then I'll let you go. Uh, I'm gonna be respectful of your time here, but um if you weren't doing this, man, what what would you be doing right now? If you weren't the Swick in North Carolina, what what would Greg Hauser uh be doing uh right now?

SPEAKER_01: 50:23

Man, I that's a great question too. I've I've always thought about that. You know, I um I once got called into uh the fire chief's office and when I was you know younger in my career, and and he said, What do you want? Like, what do you want to do? I didn't really understand the question the way he was asking it, then you know, the fire chief of a metro fire department. Um he meant, what do you want out of your career? When I just thought, what do you want? So I said, Sir, I want to play golf every weekend and get paid. And he said, You are an idiot, dude. Uh I'm not asking you that. So, in other words, he was asking me how I wanted to progress in the in the organization, and I was like, I just want to play golf and get paid. So I and uh so I kind of realized then, but I've always loved uh playing golf. I don't get to do it much, but I mean I I would have a great shtick, dude. Like every week they're in a different city, like wear a law enforcement shirt or a fire department shirt for that city or that area, you know, EMS organization. Um, you know, have uh one of my college buddies or high school buddies carry the bag and um and do that. I'm I'm not all that good, but I have a blast doing it.

SPEAKER_00: 51:31

Well, you know, every public safety agency has training polos, right? So and that's what golfers wear. Uh every town you're in, wear the local police departments uh, you know, uh you know what they would wear with 5'11s. And who knows, maybe you could convince 5'11 to be a sponsor and they can make some golf pants. You never know.

SPEAKER_01: 51:49

That's right. We'll start we'll start. I still gotta still have to learn how to play golf well enough to play every week and get paid.

SPEAKER_00: 51:54

You know, just keep working at it. Uh that's right. You'll you'll you'll get there eventually. So the last question for you, Greg, and and and then uh we'll close out this episode. But if you could give one piece of advice to the next generation of emergency communications professionals, and yes, there is a passionate group of young people that are passionate about public service, public safety. That's that's in high school right now and college right now. Uh it's it's really impressive to see, actually. It's a I think we have a big tide of public servants that are going to come into the into the workforce very soon. So what would you tell them um right now as as to motivate them to keep them on that path? And and uh, you know, what would be your advice to them?

SPEAKER_01: 52:40

Yeah, um, I think be patient, number one, you know, learning and progressing as a as a professional, you know, you you've you're getting the education now that is super important. When you get out and you get into your profession or a career, it may not be where you want to land right now, but um I think what I learned is be patient, listen. You may not understand what people are talking about, and that's okay. You don't have to be necessarily in the conversation, sometimes just overhearing two really smart people talk. You know, I remember uh again two of my mentors, two of the original comms folks here in North Carolina, I had no idea what they were saying, and they were talking about crazy stuff, but I remembered keywords, and I would go home and I would research what they were talking about, and then the next time I was around them and heard stuff, like I could put two and two together, and I start to I would start to understand. I'm like, holy cow, I think I can do this. Like I started to understand, you know. That I think also protect what you value. Um you don't have to conform just to be worth something. Um, you know, it it's okay uh to not agree. It doesn't mean um you're being excluded or um I I think disagreement is is important, especially in you know in adult jobs. Uh I I sometimes we get afraid of that, we're afraid uh of doing that. Um and I think I think las uh give yourself some grace. You know, you're gonna mess up, it's okay. You know, it's okay to screw up. Um but it's what you do after you screw up, which that's gonna define your career. Uh so if you take the time to fix what you've screwed up, admit that you've screwed up, um, give yourself some grace, it's okay. You know, don't beat yourself up about it. Um, those things are gonna lead to the thing, you know, those those interactions and those scenarios where you're gonna hit home runs, you're gonna do great things, uh, and then you're gonna be in a position of giving other people advice.

SPEAKER_00: 54:52

So go ahead and excellent, excellent advice, sir. Thank you very much. Greg Hauser, I want to thank you so much for joining me today on the EOC podcast. Uh, it was excellent to have you. Um, I I really appreciate your insight. Uh and thank you for everything that you've done for not only uh the the state of North Carolina uh and all of your impact that you've had there, but as well as shaping the way that interoperability looks like throughout the rest of the United States. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 55:22

Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate you. Um looking forward to seeing you yet. I miss you, buddy.

SPEAKER_00: 55:26

Absolutely. I miss you as well. And I miss your Southern hospitality because you show it better than anybody else. Uh so uh I look forward to the next time that uh you can carry my bags up to my hotel room for me when I'm visiting uh North Carolina because you're just that kind of guy. Uh not only do I want to thank Greg Hauser, but I want to thank everybody uh for tuning into this podcast. Uh I am very excited about the next line of a guest that we're gonna have. Thanks again for joining me, Greg, and uh everybody else, and we'll see you on the next episode.